AIMING ACCURACY

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Lla
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Post by Lla » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:12 pm

Belladonna wrote: Would this be with all weapons or just that laser? One of my main issues with playing CJ was that I couldn't kill people with the SMGs as easily as I could in NOLF2. Some weapons seemed to be more accurate, some I felt very out of sync with.
It goes for ALL weapons ! :mad:

I tested and measured all CJ guns and if of any interest, I can show the results here.

Range, angle and centering are false in all cases and, since the cat's out of the bag, what can be done about it?

The only accurate gun is Ura's 357 magnum (in his cool "lightsabertest7" mod) with which "instinctive" shooting is possible and efficient but I did'nt test his other guns though.
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Post by SPYDAVE » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:01 pm

How does the accuracy compare when Arcade Mode is enabled with the Pegasus Mod?
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Post by URA » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:39 pm

Lla wrote: It goes for ALL weapons ! :mad:

I tested and measured all CJ guns and if  of any interest, I can show the results here.

Range, angle and centering are false in all cases and,  since the cat's out of the bag, what can be done about it?

The only accurate gun is Ura's 357 magnum (in his cool "lightsabertest7" mod) with which "instinctive" shooting is possible and efficient but I did'nt test his other guns though.
The only thing I can see that can be done about this is to play with each weapons position setting in attributes\weapons.txt, but this will only move the player view model not rotate it.

Example (Laser Rifle):
//from:
//Pos = <0.070000, -0.817499, 0.270000> //<x, y, z>
//to:
Pos = <0.070000, 0.000000, 0.270000>
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Post by Belladonna » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:47 am

Interesting. I'm just curious... have you done any weapon testing with NOLF1 or 2 as well?

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Lla
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Post by Lla » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:54 am

SPYDAVE wrote: How does the accuracy compare when Arcade Mode is enabled with the Pegasus Mod?
no idea but it must be tested ;)
Besides its nice to see you showing up from time to time :thumb:
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Lla
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Post by Lla » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:03 am

URA wrote:
Lla wrote: It goes for ALL weapons ! :mad:

I tested and measured all CJ guns and if? of any interest, I can show the results here.

Range, angle and centering are false in all cases and,? since the cat's out of the bag, what can be done about it?

The only accurate gun is Ura's 357 magnum (in his cool "lightsabertest7" mod) with which "instinctive" shooting is possible and efficient but I did'nt test his other guns though.
The only thing I can see that can be done about this is to play with each weapons position setting in attributes\weapons.txt, but this will only move the player view model not rotate it.

Example (Laser Rifle):
//from:
//Pos = <0.070000, -0.817499, 0.270000> //<x, y, z>
//to:
Pos = <0.070000, 0.000000, 0.270000>
Man! this is chinese to me :)) but you must know what to do :blink: about this problem (if it is a problem) seemingly not for you as you overpass "normal" resulsts in playing CJ (dunno how you do it). :mellow:
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Lla
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Post by Lla » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:12 am

Belladonna wrote: Interesting. I'm just curious... have you done any weapon testing with NOLF1 or 2 as well?
Is that me you're asking? :unsure:
Well if it is, no I did'nt but you'd better ask the wizards here since besides real shooting, virtuality is beyond my access...too bad ((2))
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Post by Alexa » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:27 am

Perhaps I'm missing some subtle inside joke here or my thought is flawed but would anybody tell me: why should the shots fired be supposed to follow the vanishing point? Imagine in the picture you posted you'd strafe to the left, thus shifting the vanishing point to the left...would you want to fire the shots there?

I expect (I'm playing Nolf2 mainly) my shots to hit the center of the screen, where my crosshair is. And in reality you would hold the gun in front of your face (ideally) and fire the shots straight ahead (which I believe is done in the calculation of the shots). The animation should show the shot to be fired from the muzzle to the center, which is also done correctly, just draw diagonal lines from the corners into your picture (I think the vanishing point for the shots should be a point faaaaaar away in Z direction, but center screen X, Y). Just the direction of the gun does not match completely, but eh, can't have everything. Or not? (hide)
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by Lla » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:17 am

Alexa wrote: Perhaps I'm missing some subtle inside joke here or my thought is flawed but would anybody tell me: why should the shots fired be supposed to follow the vanishing point? Imagine in the picture you posted you'd strafe to the left, thus shifting the vanishing point to the left...would you want to fire the shots there?

I expect (I'm playing Nolf2 mainly) my shots to hit the center of the screen, where my crosshair is. And in reality you would hold the gun in front of your face (ideally) and fire the shots straight ahead (which I believe is done in the calculation of the shots). The animation should show the shot to be fired from the muzzle to the center, which is also done correctly, just draw diagonal lines from the corners into your picture (I think the vanishing point for the shots should be a point faaaaaar away in Z direction, but center screen X, Y). Just the direction of the gun does not match completely, but eh, can't have everything. Or not? (hide)
You're not missing any joke (this time :grin: ) as this is a serious matter :excl:

As you well know, the crosshair is centered on the screen and is fixed (together with the gun) .
So the vanishing point is allways what you're aiming at according to the laws of perspective and is used, in that case as a mean to show and measure the evidence of wrong angles.
Where ever you're looking at, you obey the laws of perspective (3D) so if you strafe to the left (following your example) you'll still obey these laws.
They were discovered around the 16th century and can't be changed as a 4th dimension is out of reach :))

The Z direction is'nt "faaar" but infinite and we can't (yet) change that.

Up to this point, we are dealing with three subjects: one is the CJ aiming problem which is ponctual ( ;) ) the second one is shooting straight and the third is the principle of representing and reading space which is a HUGE matter.

When Matisse was asked: "what is painting?" his answer was: "don't you have a smaller question?" :))

So, to make it short, the gun's angle, the shooting axis and the blank point should be aligned.

Alltogether, if those questions are of any interest, i'll be glad to talk about it (not only me I guess)
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Post by Alexa » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:52 pm

Lla wrote: As you well know, the crosshair is centered on the screen and is fixed (together with the gun) .
So the vanishing point is allways what you're aiming at according to the laws of perspective and is used, in that case as a mean to show and measure the evidence of wrong angles.
Where ever you're looking at, you obey the laws of perspective (3D) so if you strafe to the left (following your example) you'll still obey these laws.
They were discovered around the 16th century and can't be changed as a 4th dimension is out of reach  :))
Hmmm, a though one. Still I wanna fight: Lines that are orthogonal (Z) to the viewport (let's call the 2D coords X and Y) follow the vanishing point. The X and Y components are just scaled with the Z component (and I believe the intercept theorems are used for better results in case of CG). So you'd be right in case we'd shoot straight 'from the hip' into the Z direction. We don't. We shoot from the lower right of the viewer to the middle of the screen, thus the shot trajectory HAS X and Y components. Still I think the only thing that's flawed is the gun model. :fechten:
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by CateArcher » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:59 pm

:blink: ;) :huh: :wacko: :huh: :unsure: :mellow:
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Post by Alexa » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:35 pm

One more thought:

Let's say you shoot a wall in the distance. The shots end up in the middle of the screen, the crosshair. Now you don't move at all, but remove the wall, or better shift it farther away from you. The shots are bound to end up more on the upper left of the crosshair, since we are shooting from the lower right, right?

This isn't happening since the Z component isn't included in the calculation of the target point of the shots. You calculate the Z component from the middle screen coordinates and THEN you got the 3D coords of the muzzle and the target point and then you can check if the shot hits an obstacle in the way between your target and the muzzle (one should be able to verify this).

By the way last time I programmed, I set infinity to 10,000. :P
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by Lla » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:46 pm

Alexa wrote:
Lla wrote: As you well know, the crosshair is centered on the screen and is fixed (together with the gun) .
So the vanishing point is allways what you're aiming at according to the laws of perspective and is used, in that case as a mean to show and measure the evidence of wrong angles.
Where ever you're looking at, you obey the laws of perspective (3D) so if you strafe to the left (following your example) you'll still obey these laws.
They were discovered around the 16th century and can't be changed as a 4th dimension is out of reach? :))
Hmmm, a though one. Still I wanna fight: Lines that are orthogonal (Z) to the viewport (let's call the 2D coords X and Y) follow the vanishing point. The X and Y components are just scaled with the Z component (and I believe the intercept theorems are used for better results in case of CG). So you'd be right in case we'd shoot straight 'from the hip' into the Z direction. We don't. We shoot from the lower right of the viewer to the middle of the screen, thus the shot trajectory HAS X and Y components. Still I think the only thing that's flawed is the gun model. :fechten:
:)) I like your way of answering me :thumb:
Can't answer you right away but i"ll do it soon (family pblm)
What you say has sense but please do not involve anatomy in it, else we'll both get lost. :mad:
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Post by Lla » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:47 pm

CateArcher wrote: :blink: ;) :huh: :wacko: :huh: :unsure: :mellow:
Stop being sarcastic :)) :blink: :unsure: ((awwsmile)) :mellow: :huh: :angry: :rolleyes: :D :P :))
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Post by CateArcher » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:22 am

hahahahahahahahaha :))
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