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Post by Spawn » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:31 pm

As said before...

I think that mod works great :thumb:

Good work :grin:
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Post by Belladonna » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:02 pm

Oooo, bugfixes, everything bundled together so the NOLF world would be a better place and there would be less whining and crying over every little thing. Get unbusy, Alexa! :lol:

If only it wasn't such a pain to use mods people might not be so reluctant to use them. I know I hate having to turn the game off and on because it takes forever to load up for me and crashes at least once anyway. There's nothing more frustrating than putting on a mod, seeing no one in that server, so switching to regular play and finding that one server is full and you can't get in it now. I want it to be so the mod is on the server and I don't have to do a thing, just enter it and play without having to download or check a mod. I don't want much, do I? :P

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Post by Spawn » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:24 pm

And I'd like to have a can of coffee that never goes empty :thumb:

but seriously.. I think that's the only solution.. (not the coffee)
a autodownloadenable function :P
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Post by Alexa » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:44 am

Belladonna wrote: Oooo, bugfixes, everything bundled together so the NOLF world would be a better place and there would be less whining and crying over every little thing. Get unbusy, Alexa!
Uh well, actually I'm trying to get more busy. Must admit I do have enough time right now (:mellow:) but not the head for programming. We need moooooore coders...
If only it wasn't such a pain to use mods people might not be so reluctant to use them.

I know I hate having to turn the game off and on because it takes forever to load up for me and crashes at least once anyway. There's nothing more frustrating than putting on a mod, seeing no one in that server, so switching to regular play and finding that one server is full and you can't get in it now.

I want it to be so the mod is on the server and I don't have to do a thing, just enter it and play without having to download or check a mod. I don't want much, do I?
Well, I'm thinking anyway more about an update than a mod. So it WOULD be used, we'd place it on the official sites etc. May take too much effort, though. Technically, downloading while connecting to a server would be possible, for maps it is easy but not for mods. I doubt that there's a single game out there that could do it (I mean use it after the download without restart). Again, impossible is nothing. But to implement this NOW into Nolf2 would really need a team (if possible at all thanks to old lithtech technology).

You do use gamespy or sumting, don't you? Actually I'm writing a server query tool right now, a sleek one since I hate the 'semicommercial' tools. But you'll have to set the IPs for yourself, it can't get a server list. :angry:

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Spawn wrote: And I'd like to have a can of coffee that never goes empty
Easy one. Every time you pour yourself a coffee, pour only half as much as you did the last time...
but seriously.. I think that's the only solution.. (not the coffee)
a autodownloadenable function
Wouldn't be the worst solution. To implement it now however would be most difficult. Think it would be easier to let the host send a "Message of the day".
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by sonic goo » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:00 pm

IANAC (I Am Not A Coder) but why would downloading mods be more difficult than maps? Isn't it just a matter of putting them in a different location?

There certainly are games that let you download mods and use them rightaway - UT2k4 certainly, I think HL2 does it too.

As for making it, maybe you could have a look at how the FEAR engine does it? That's quite closely related to the NOLF one, I believe.

Maybe if we made something like that, added the anti-cheating stuff and the anti-spawnkill stuff and offered it as an update?

(If you want to do stuff, and not programming, how about getting into mapping? :D )
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Post by Alexa » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:14 pm

Like I said, technically it's not too hard. But: Maps are made from start to be loaded, used by the game and unloaded again. Mods usually are not. The mod functionality in NOLF2, as you may know, works like this: the files in the "mods" folder are used instead of the games original ones when starting up. And no, not just putting them in another location. In worst case you have to unload and unhook heavy stuff from Windows and replace it. It's getting H for hard from me.

It's a bit an analogy to drivers in Windows vs. Linux. Windows needs (or at least needed) restart for every tiny bit you installed, while Linux didn't (lil exaggeration, ok).

I reckon the game would have to be designed in "smaller bits" in order to make parts of it excangeable while running. And I furthermore reckon that is an ENGINE thing, not a game designers thing. So the Fear engine may be able to, but the Nolf2 engine NEVER will, no chance to add it. In case of Nolf2, maybe automatic shutdown and restart would be the only chance in my opinion. And even that...

I wanna get into hardware design for signal processing. The closest thing to this is programming. Mapping? I'm not to keen on eye-cancer, are you?. Nah, mapping's for the mappers, and coding's for the programmers (and me).
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by Belladonna » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:38 pm

Mappers and modders are a special breed, I admire them and fully admit I don't have the head for all those boring details. I keep dreaming up map ideas then open dedit and shut it down right away, it's just too hard for someone like me. Unless someone can personally walk me through every step, I can't be bothered. Old dog, new tricks, you know. :P

I don't use GameSpy. I didn't like all the crap they put on the computer when I tried them a few years back so have avoided them ever since.

I fully realize that what I'd like just isn't doable for NOLF. Heck, just getting a simple MOTD is hard enough and something I've been wanting for forever. It'd be so nice for people to know where to go to get the maps/mods used on that particular server or even where the server rules are. I fear we're pretty much stuck with things as they are now unless someone brilliant in the community comes along and creates an impressive update. I doubt the creators think much about NOLF anymore and the chances of anything 'official' coming out are probably around 99.99%. :unsure:

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Post by Alexa » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:51 pm

Well in my case I'm into technical details but not into art. I'd love to make that ONI skyscraper map. But when I try to draw a house, I end up with a beautiful drawing of a cow. So if anybody needs cow-drawings let me know...

<!--QuoteBegin-Belladonna+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Belladonna)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I don't use GameSpy. I didn't like all the crap they put on the computer when I tried them a few years back so have avoided them ever since.
[/quote]
And that's exactly why I wrote myself that query tool. In the end I want to give it a proper GUI and not leave it be command line only, of course. But GUIs are art again. :D

I think we don't need someone brilliant, just a TEAM with a lot of time. I just read the job offerings on the Monolith site. Well maybe if I applied there. ;)

And the creators deffo don't think about NOLF2 any more I reckon. Creating games is a exhausting work, and they don't have the time once they finished them (and released the updates to fix the bugs they had to leave in the game because of the deadline).

I think the chances of something official coming out are around 0.00009%. Do you know something I don't, Bella? :P
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by Belladonna » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:32 pm

Whoops, that's what happens when I post without paying attention.... :bonk:
99.99% chance that it will NEVER happen. Sorry. ((2))

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Post by Spawn » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:40 pm

Alexa wrote: Wouldn't be the worst solution. To implement it now however would be most difficult. Think it would be easier to let the host send a "Message of the day".
Message of the day is Nolf2 only though.. CJ doesn't have that :)

Fear have some function for autodownloading resources though,
but like Fats said in a earlier post here somewhere.. (I think)
The server should share the files itself.. they should
be hosted in a fileserver in some way,

It would cause a serious lag if it was downloaded from the server itself
(however.. this would only work with maps, since the game needs a restart
to enable a mod :unsure:

But a 'message of the day' thing would probably help for nolf2 B)
I really wonder when that contest sierra had expired! lol

Easy one. Every time you pour yourself a coffee, pour only half as much as you did the last time...
It will last 3 times longer that way, good idea :thumb:

That serverquery looks really sweet! Good work :grin:
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Post by Alexa » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:13 am

Message of the day is Nolf2 only though.. CJ doesn't have that

Fear have some function for autodownloading resources though,
but like Fats said in a earlier post here somewhere.. (I think)
The server should share the files itself.. they should
be hosted in a fileserver in some way,

It would cause a serious lag if it was downloaded from the server itself
(however.. this would only work with maps, since the game needs a restart
to enable a mod

But a 'message of the day' thing would probably help for nolf2
I really wonder when that contest sierra had expired!
Well it wouldn't be 'that' message of the day anyway..that feature is prolly unusable. I think I found a way to display a server message when the client joins (Nolf1 can do that I think). Found=a way to program that...still lotsa work.

Jup, the game server should not be bothered with the download. But if that feature was implemented, that wouldn't be the problem. If I look into my crystal ball I see: nothing. Nolf2 community is too small for such big projects. :unsure:

If Sierra keeps broadcasting that message of the day I might register. :lol:

That serverquery looks really sweet! Good work
Thangggya! And by the way, it's only 26 KB in size. Prolly will be double size when finished (command line still), but ey, still small. The best: I plan to include Map name resolving into it: maps with names like DD_6 can be resolved to "Violence in the Villa" etc. Watch out Gamespy here I come!

As for your coffee problem: why not carpenter yourself a huuuuuuuuuuuuge cup? Or even better: get an Otter, feed it coffee beans and milk it!
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by Spawn » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:37 pm

Poor otter :lol:

So... server messages.. Not a bad idea at all :thumb:

This will work even if the client is kicked because of lack of resourses?

(that sounded bad, lol)
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Post by Alexa » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:41 pm

Ah da Otter loves that. Just don't do that to the kitty. You don't want a kitty on caffeine to be in the same room as you.

The kicking of the client is exactly the problem. The server just informes the client that it's running another version (mod etc.) and thus you can't join. You'd have to change the messages the server sends, that would take a change in the netcode also. Prolly faster to just buy Sierra.
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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Post by Spawn » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:05 am

Ahhh.. Well, I got 10$ here.. and if you have a few as well..
I guess we're in buisness then :thumb:

(it can't be that expensive...)


But we're taking a step in the right direction if the server can
inform about other versions/mods and their download locations :thumb:

About the caffeine and kittys part.. have you tried that? hehe
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Post by Alexa » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:28 am

Some clever investments and Sierra is ours! Then we could shift priorities of projects, if you get me...

I'm not convinced that it would help the modding scene. I think most don't want to use them. And then there are not soo many out there. Changing them while running Nolf2 (I reckon same is true for CJ) will NEVER work. BUT if I'd be able to change the server messages, then I'd probably be able to implement an Auto Download (from a different server of course).

Before I'd implement this, I'd rather fix the bugs, include a mild form of the Amod (spawntag destruction without invincibility) into the fix and release it as an Update!

I had 2 tomcats in my life, both not neutered. They grew up to HUGE lynx-like creatures. Now imagine them wanting to leave the house at night, I assure you they never had to stay inside if they didn't want to. No coffee needed...stick to my Otter idea, best thing since the spice weasel.

By the way I think a thing that would be accepted by the community would be new COOP maps. Prolly gonna get in touch with ya about them in the near future. If there is coding needed to make them, I'll do it. If not, well...
People who are rather more than six feet tall and nearly as broad across the shoulders often have uneventful journeys. People jump out at them from behind rocks then say things like, "Oh. Sorry. I thought you were someone else."

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